From New York to Croydon - via Glastonbury!
April 2010
The so-called ‘star-makers’ of the music industry are generally thought to be the svengali figures – the managers, agents and record producers who wheel, deal, move and shake in the shadow of their young protégés. But consider for a moment the influence of an interpretive vocalist like Judy Collins, whose records back in the early sixties were filled with songs by Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen, often long before they were recorded by the writers themselves. Time was, that having a song recorded by Judy Collins was a major stepping-stone along the road to success, guaranteed in those formative days to reach more people than any amount of press or radio advertising.
Born in Seattle, Judy initially studied classical piano under Dr Antonia Brico and made her performing debut aged 13 playing Mozart rather than Dylan. Before long, her love of traditional folk song and the music of contemporary artists such as Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger led her to take up the guitar, performing alongside bluegrass musicians David Grisman and Tom Azarian on the Connecticut university campus where her first husband taught. Eventually she moved to New York City, busking and playing the acoustic clubs of Greenwich Village, the very epicentre of the folk revival, where she rubbed shoulders with Dylan, Judy Henske, Tom Paxton and Phil Ochs.
These gigs brought her to the attention of Elektra Records boss Jac Holzman, who promptly signed the 22 year old to his label; back then, record companies were run for all the right reasons, to make music, not money and Elektra were a prime example. Her first album ‘A Maid of Constant Sorrow’, largely a collection of traditional folk song was released in 1961. Now, almost fifty years, over 40 albums and several Grammy nominations later, Judy is about to release a new album called ‘Paradise’.
I spoke to Judy at the Carlyle Hotel in Madison Avenue, on Manhattan’s Upper East Side (and I don’t get to type that too often), where she was into the fifth week of a six-week residency, to talk about ‘Paradise’, the handful of forthcoming dates in the UK and to ask exactly what was her secret for unearthing the best new material from the finest songwriters of her generation.
Judy, is the concert you are currently presenting at The Carlyle basically the same show you’ll be bringing to the UK?
Well, there will be some things from this show, but we will mix it up, there’s lots to work with – fifty years of material gives you a lot of leeway! I’ll be singing several songs from my new record too, certainly ‘Over the Rainbow.’ The new album will be coming out in London very soon. It’s got the Joan Baez track, ‘Diamonds and Rust’ which she also sings with me, a new Jimmy Webb song, a duet with Stephen Stills and some other goodies.
A new song by Jimmy Webb is always something to be thankful for…
Oh yeah, it’s a great song, called ‘Gauguin’ and I’m the only person apart from Jimmy who has recorded it, so that’s also exciting.
It’s often been the case that you’ve sought out new songs by the best songwriters…
I have certainly found songs that hadn’t been released yet; even Jimmy Webb and his song ‘The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress’, which I recorded back in 1974, had been sitting around for about 9 years before anyone recorded it. Fortunately I got to it first and then a lot of other versions appeared.
You are quoted as saying - “I think of great songwriters as Gods and Goddesses. Bringing me gifts, as surely tagged with my name as though they had been written especially for me.” How did you develop the knack for unearthing such great songs by up and coming songwriters?
Oh it’s luck, mainly, she laughs, and maybe being in the right place at the right time.
Especially with songs from the likes of Leonard Cohen, for example, you recorded ‘Suzanne’ and ‘Bird on a Wire’ way back…
Yes, all the Leonard Cohen and also the Joni Mitchell songs. My producer Mark and I did a lot of hunting and looking for songs, but often it would just happen. I mean, Al Kooper called me in the middle of the night to tell me about Joni Mitchell’s ‘Both Sides Now’ and my friend Mary Martin, who was with Warner Brothers and also worked for Albert Grossman, she was the one who told me about Leonard (Cohen). She was a friend of his and she didn’t know anybody else that she thought would even like his songs!
I was recently looking over the history of some of these songs and somehow, somebody sent me a tape of ‘I Think It’s Going to Rain Today’ by Randy Newman, and this was before he recorded it. I recorded it in 1966 and his first album didn’t come out until ’68. I believe Julius La Rosa had a recording of it which was released before mine, but that’s only because we didn’t get our record out quick enough! I actually recorded it first. But that was another one of many instances where we found an artist just as they were starting to write.
As well as your American contemporaries, you somehow uncovered songs by British writers, I’m thinking particularly of your version of ‘Who Knows Where the Time Goes’ by Sandy Denny, which probably brought the song to the attention of British audiences faster than Fairport’s own recording?
Yes, I don’t know exactly who sent it to us, but Sandy can only have been 20 or 21 years old when she wrote that song, it’s uncanny – but the minute I heard it I thought, oh my god, I absolutely have to sing that song.
And another great British band, the Incredible String Band, who were probably not so well known at the time you recorded one of Robin Williamson’s songs…
Oh, yeah, ‘The First Boy I Loved’ – or the ‘first girl’ as it was when Robin wrote it. What a song. I absolutely loved that song.
Both bands were on Island records in the UK, but I believe they were licensed to Elektra in the States; perhaps that could have been where you heard the early Fairport and ISB recordings…?
Well, yes and no. The A&R department at Elektra was OK for finding songs and Jac would certainly keep his eye open for possible material; he sent me Jacques Brel records for example, very early on, so by 1962 I had already heard Brel. Even on the new album, I’ve recorded Tim Buckley’s ‘Once I Was’ and I’m sure I originally heard that from Jac Holzman. So it was a group effort, but also very synchronistic.
For example I already knew Amazing Grace and when I sang it at a gathering of friends, my producer happened to be there, heard it and said you’ve got to record that. It was Stephen Stills idea to record Ian Tyson’s ‘Someday Soon’. With ‘Send In The Clowns’, another friend of mine got the cast album through Elektra, called me up and said you’d better listen to this song, you’ve got to sing it. So every once in a while something really good would come through.
You now have your own label, Wildflower records, but you were associated with Elektra for a long, long time…
That’s right, I did 24 years the first time and then I went back to them and did a couple more albums in about 1985. They were wonderful; it was the real heyday of record labels where they took care of you and you all felt part of a mutual effort. With Elektra you were very much part of a family, in fact I’m still very close to Jac (Holzman) and his brother and some of the other people from the label. It was a very, very good time; Jac is a great guy, but sadly most of the people like him are all gone now.
The luck, as you put it, or more likely a good ear for finding the right material is still paying dividends, because you have just covered a new writer, Amy Spease on the new album…
Oh, you know ‘Weight of the World’ is a fabulous song and there’s no doubt that Amy is a great writer. You know, I just happened to have that wonderful artist on my label, and although I do try to listen to other things, this one was so close to home that I just couldn’t miss it!
Bearing in mind the success of one show tune ‘Send in the Clowns’, many people seem surprised that you’ve never recorded ‘Over the Rainbow’ before…?
I have sung it before, including on the Dinah Shore TV show many years ago, maybe twenty two years ago. The clip has now made it to YouTube, but I had never actually recorded the song until this new album. I guess it is kinda funny, I must have been waiting for the right moment!
You’ve published a number of books, including the memoirs ‘Trust Your Heart’ (1987) and the moving ‘Sanity & Grace’ (2006), which dealt with the tragic death of your son. Plus there was the novel ‘Shameless’ (2007), a music business thriller; are there any other books in the pipeline…?
Yes, I have a book going on now that is due out in 2011, called ‘Suite: Judy Blue Eyes’ and subtitled ‘Sex, drugs, rock and roll and the music that changed a generation’! I’m working on that with great abandon”, she laughs again, “but I do love writing. I find it such a good discipline but unlike many people, I also love the editing process, because I like getting in with another mind and viewpoint – and seeing how that works out and people respond to it. It’s very exciting.
It can be lonely when you are in the first part, but once you get to a place where you’ve got a couple of editors with their eyes on it, then it can be a lovely exchange.
As part of your brief visit to the UK in June, you will be hosting a Wildflower records promotion night at the Half Moon in Putney and warming up for the Ashcroft Theatre in Croydon by making your first ever appearance on the Avalon stage at Glastonbury!
Yes, that’ll make the third big festival that I’ve done in England. I was at the Isle of Wight last year and Cambridge Folk festival the year before that, so finally I will have hit the major festivals, which is something I’ve always wanted to do and not been able to until recently. I think I’ll have a wonderful time in the UK, I’m really looking forward to it.
Talking of which, have you ever been approached to play at Cropredy, Fairport Convention’s own festival, especially as you are inextricably linked to Sandy’s best-known song…?
No, but I’ll have a word with the management people – because that would be really nice!
Judy Collins at Cropredy, now there’s a match made in heaven; memo to the Fairport boys for next year, Simon, Dave, if you’re reading this…
Chris Groom